The AE911Truth Petition
To the Members of the House of Representatives and of the Senate of the United States of America,
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE THAT:
On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 – specifically the collapses of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7. We believe there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that might have been the actual cause of the destruction of the World Trade Center Twin Towers and Building 7.
Featured Petition Signers
Victor Couwenbergh
Television Production
TV Broadcasting, Algonquin College
Thank you AE911Truth for providing a credible, authoritative source of technical information regarding the structure of the WTC buildings and why the collapses could not have occurred as…
Victor Couwenbergh
TV Broadcasting, Algonquin College
Ottawa, ON, Canada
Occupation: Television Production
Television Production Technician and 9/11 activist from Ottawa, Canada.
Thank you AE911Truth for providing a credible, authoritative source of technical information regarding the structure of the WTC buildings and why the collapses could not have occurred as presented by NIST and the 9/11 Commission Report.
Omid Kayvan, BS
BS Civil Engineering, Arizona State University, 1982
I have serious doubts about the cause of collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2, as well as WTC 7. The indications are that they came down in…
Omid Kayvan, BS
BS Civil Engineering, Arizona State University, 1982
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
I'm a civil engineer and project manager for the FAA. I have 25 years experience building National Airspace System critical facilities, including the construction of air traffic control towers.
I have serious doubts about the cause of collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2, as well as WTC 7. The indications are that they came down in a controlled-collapse manner, and this casts a dark shadow over the official published story. I have worked on projects involving controlled demolitions of decommissioned air traffic control towers. My opinion is that the twin towers and building 7 were brought down by controlled demolition, contrary to the official story.
John P. Machado
BSEE UMass
Near free-fall time, near perfect symmetry ... impossible without explosives. My own thought: Flight 93 was to hit bldg. 7 and went astray. #7 was done in anyway…
John P. Machado
BSEE UMass
North Versailles, PA
B.S. Electronics Engineering, UMass, Dartmouth, '66, 3M Co. R & D, Entrepreneur.
Near free-fall time, near perfect symmetry ... impossible without explosives. My own thought: Flight 93 was to hit bldg. 7 and went astray. #7 was done in anyway because it was loaded with EVIDENCE. The Mass Murderers are not only FREE but have benefited enormously from their crime...many Americans should be ashamed of their laziness and blank acceptance of a total whitewash.
David H. Noble, AIA
Ret. Architect/Attorney
B Architecture, University of California Berkeley, 1967
I wrote 53 letters to Donald Trump about why we need an actual investigation and prosecution of the perpetrators, available upon request.
David H. Noble, AIA
B Architecture, University of California Berkeley, 1967
Seal Beach, CA
Occupation: Ret. Architect/Attorney
I wrote 53 letters to Donald Trump about why we need an actual investigation and prosecution of the perpetrators, available upon request.
Kevin Seal, Video Producer
Media
B.A.J., Journalism, Indiana University
The interview I've seen with Richard Gage was encouraging and refreshing, as he stuck to the technical facts without spinning off into fingerprinting or theorizing.
Kevin Seal, Video Producer
B.A.J., Journalism, Indiana University
Oakland, CA
Occupation: Media
I'm not an engineer; my background is in communication. As a trained journalist, however, I feel the journalistic profession has not done what it should to insist upon further independent investigation.
The interview I've seen with Richard Gage was encouraging and refreshing, as he stuck to the technical facts without spinning off into fingerprinting or theorizing.
Douglas E. Rogers
BE CpE
Before even looking at who did what or why, I just want to know what happened. Regardless of your politics, the official account of what happened is bad…
Douglas E. Rogers
BE CpE
Boston, MA
Application designer and developer. Live in Hoboken, NJ from 2000 to 2005. I was on Manhattan for 9/11.
Before even looking at who did what or why, I just want to know what happened. Regardless of your politics, the official account of what happened is bad science. I don't like bad science because it leads to false conclusions. I'm not afraid of the truth, only ignorance.
Bruce F. Caswell, MS
Chemical Engineer
MS Engineering, University of Michigan, 1963
WTC 7 was demolished with explosives attached to the structural frame. Hardly anything in the building was flammable, it was mostly steel, glass, and masonry.
Bruce F. Caswell, MS
MS Engineering, University of Michigan, 1963
Dearborn, MI
Occupation: Chemical Engineer
I'm a chemical engineer with bachelors and masters degrees in engineering from the University of Michigan. I'm an authority on the flammability of materials and I have testified in court on this subject.
WTC 7 was demolished with explosives attached to the structural frame. Hardly anything in the building was flammable, it was mostly steel, glass, and masonry.
James E. Seymour, BSE, BSEngSc
BSE, BSEngSc University of Cincinnati
I think 911 was an inside job. I'm less certain about the bombs in the buildings. I saw a video on the web showing controlled demolitions. The explosions…
James E. Seymour, BSE, BSEngSc
BSE, BSEngSc University of Cincinnati
Carrollton, TX
B.S.E. Mechanical Engineering, University of Cincinnati B.S. Engineering Science, University of Cincinnati Dipl'me de Langue, Alliance Fran'aise, Paris, Mention Honorable Certified Manufacturing Engineer [[tab]][[tab]][[tab]][[tab]][[tab]] EXPERIENCE SUMMARY In depth, widely varied technical experience in both aerospace and commercial areas with major accomplishments on many top high-tech projects for Fortune 500 companies. Successful responsibility from initial conceptualization and conformance to product specifications through design and manufacturing in a wide variety of technical environments . Specialist in electro-mechanical product development with sub-specialties in metallic and non-metallic aircraft structures and control systems and electronics packaging. Heavy MIL-STD experience. Heavy CAD experience. (16,000+ hrs, 6 systems). Fluent written and spoken French at a business level . Spoken Spanish at an intermediate level . AutoCAD and Pro/E.
I think 911 was an inside job. I'm less certain about the bombs in the buildings. I saw a video on the web showing controlled demolitions. The explosions were huge concussions and louder than the sound the fall made. I'm signing this petition because a real investigation needs to be done.
Don Cassidy
Electrical Engineer
BS Electrical Engineering, Colorado State University, 1987
"On 9/11, I was watching the events at work with another electrical engineer. When the south tower collapsed, I turned to him and said, ""It is not possible…
Don Cassidy
BS Electrical Engineering, Colorado State University, 1987
Monument, CO
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
BS Electrical Engineering, Colorado State University, 1987. ASIC design engineer working in Colorado.
"On 9/11, I was watching the events at work with another electrical engineer. When the south tower collapsed, I turned to him and said, ""It is not possible for a building to collapse like that from fire. The building looks like a demolition."" His response was, ""It must be possible because it just happened."" Since then, I wish I had added, ""The buildings came down through the path of highest resistance but fell at near free-fall speeds. That is not possible unless the resistance of lower floors was removed. That is the definition of a demolition"". I have no idea who is behind these demolitions or their full motives, but I am convinced that these three steel structures were intentionally demolished on 9/11/2001. Nothing else makes sense."
Ryan R. Mcdonald, EIT
BSEE
The World Trade Center 7 building collapsing in a symmetrical manner nearly at the rate of gravity led me to question the official story. The fact that WTC7…
Ryan R. Mcdonald, EIT
BSEE
Minneapolis, MN
Graduate of Minnesota State University, Mankato with a BSEE and a minor in Mathematics.
The World Trade Center 7 building collapsing in a symmetrical manner nearly at the rate of gravity led me to question the official story. The fact that WTC7 was only mentioned as a foot note in the 9/11 Commission Report furthered my suspicions. Not long after the Report was published I found this website and have researched the circumstances surrounding 9/11 much closer. There is so much overwhelming evidence that I could no longer sit idly by.
Bruce A. Phillips, PE
M.S., Engineering, Univ. Tennessee
The fall of WTC 7 did it for me. The fact that BBC had announced it prior to the collapse, and that it had not been hit by…
Bruce A. Phillips, PE
M.S., Engineering, Univ. Tennessee
Austin, TX
20 years experience in civil infrastructure design, consulting, construction management and inspection. Owner / Managing Member of Balcones Engineering, LLC.
The fall of WTC 7 did it for me. The fact that BBC had announced it prior to the collapse, and that it had not been hit by any airplane. Then if fell perfectly...the third skyscraper that day that just fell perfectly into its own footprint. No way...Then the media blackout on that building and not a word in the commission report...WTC 7 was very obviously a controlled demolition and no one puts that together on the day of 911...It had to have been planned. Inescapable conclusion.
Paul Schalk, BEng
Technical Advisor Mechanical Engineering
BEng Mech, The HZ University of Applied Sciences, Netherlands, 2008
It is obvious that the attacks didn't collapse the building. Apart from the view that jet fuel doesn't melt steel (let alone the very little amount of fuel…
Paul Schalk, BEng
BEng Mech, The HZ University of Applied Sciences, Netherlands, 2008
Sint Philipsland, Netherlands
Occupation: Technical Advisor Mechanical Engineering
I'm educated as a mechanical engineer as bachelor of engineering, currently I'm technical advisor in tailor made machines and also responsible for structural calculations.
It is obvious that the attacks didn't collapse the building. Apart from the view that jet fuel doesn't melt steel (let alone the very little amount of fuel with respect to the the vast amount of massive steel), there were sub street level explosions before the buildings came down.
Petition Signatories
Don Brenneman
Berkeley, CA
Occupation: Psych
Don Brenneman
Berkeley, CA
Occupation: Psych
Frank J. Valles, Bridge Builder A
Decatur, MI
Occupation: Ironworker-Fabricator Power Plants ,Bridges,Hospitals,Etc
Education: College Industrial Technology
Frank J. Valles, Bridge Builder A
College Industrial Technology
Decatur, MI
Occupation: Ironworker-Fabricator Power Plants ,Bridges,Hospitals,Etc
I have worked with Steel my whole life.My father was superintendant of US Steel -South Works for 40 years. I assisted in the construction of Port Sheldon Fossil fuel power plant which began in 1976. Since then have built childrens hospitals and bridges for various companies including Stinger welding and Strocal in Arizona. I am now retired.
THEY LIED! and they continue to lie.My opinion is it was in fact a mossod/israel and U.S. collaborated attack. Bush and Chaney had everything to do with allowing it to take place and should already be in prison. I hope Donald J. Trump will see to it that that is where they end up. Alcatraz would be a good place for them all. We have enough Museums!! This way our runner ups for office can see what we do to those who defy us as a nation. God Bless you and your org.. for what you do..and Please KEEP DOING IT.
Wayne Johnson
San Francisco, CA
Occupation: Law Abiding Citizen
Education: Bachelor of Fine Arts, University of Wis
Wayne Johnson
Bachelor of Fine Arts, University of Wis
San Francisco, CA
Occupation: Law Abiding Citizen
Graduated from University of Wisconsin Milwaukee in 1984, moved to San Francisco that year, worked in the legal field until 2008 when I became disabled. I am currently taking care of myself and wish to help by donating my time to a worthy cause.
I can still remember watching T.V. the day 9/11 happened thinking to myself that when the buildings came down how closely it resembled buildings that were detonated by the Gambini Bros. when they would remove large buildings in urban areas. I have read various articles regarding the hearing on the evidence presented to the court and the court's decision to close the matter. The final decision by the court seemed wrong after all the evidence indicated that there should have been a further investigation into the matter. It left me with the feeling it was all being covered up and the public would not hear the real truth as to what realy happened and why.
Scott C. Hall, BA
Phoenix, AZ
Occupation: Planning
Education: BA
Scott C. Hall, BA
BA
Phoenix, AZ
Occupation: Planning
Environmental Analyst for over 30 years within disciplines of engineering, planning and land use.
Dean P. Willmore, SIOR
Henderson, NV
Occupation: Comm Re Broker
Education: BSBA Fin & RE Univ of Arizona
Dean P. Willmore, SIOR
BSBA Fin & RE Univ of Arizona
Henderson, NV
Occupation: Comm Re Broker
Regional VP for the Society of Industrial and Office Realtors (www.sior.com); Senior VP of Prudential - IPG Commercial Real Estate (www.prucrelv.com).
Based on my experience in Developing, leasing and selling Office and Industrial Buildings and having watched the AE911 Truth DVD, I believe it was impossible for Building 7 and the Twin Towers to have collapsed, without the aid of pre-installed, high explosive devices by an expert in building demolitions.
Lancer J. Moore, CWI
Buckeye, AZ
Occupation: Certified Welding Inspector
Lancer J. Moore, CWI
Buckeye, AZ
Occupation: Certified Welding Inspector
James Wagner
Portland, OR
Occupation: Artist
Education: Degreed
James Wagner
Degreed
Portland, OR
Occupation: Artist
I am an artist and musician who has watched the world twist into severe perversion as a result of this horrible act; 09/11.
i9/11 was impossible without preplanning. Common sense dictates the laws of free-fall and the totally explosive manner in which the buildings were downed. Most planned demolitions [into footprint] take longer than these two behemoths did.
Michael A. Bono
Fort Worth, TX
Occupation: Citizen For Truth
Michael A. Bono
Fort Worth, TX
Occupation: Citizen For Truth
I am an internet radio DJ for inyourfaceradio and do a weekly net radio show called 9/11 Revealed with my friend Greg. It's called 911 Revealed w Mike & Greg. I am a 911 truther wanting to find out the real truth behind the 9/11 attacks, not the crappy u.s. government report about it.
I feel that 9/11 was the Operation Northwoods they wanted to accomplish years ago. I feel it was an inside government job just to launch 2 different mindless wars and wars in the future.
Victor Piedra
Austin, TX
Occupation: High School
Education: student
Victor Piedra
student
Austin, TX
Occupation: High School
The collapse of the twin towers was caused probably by nano thermite inside of the twin towers then was detonated with explosives.
Robert Burton
San Luis Obispo, CA
Occupation: Real Estate Investment Student
Education: student
Robert Burton
student
San Luis Obispo, CA
Occupation: Real Estate Investment Student
Sue Frank
Temecula, CA
Occupation: Citizen
Education: Degreed
Sue Frank
Degreed
Temecula, CA
Occupation: Citizen
No technical experience. Just a concerned citizen who applaudes your cause.
I was made aware of this phenomenon when Richard spoke at the WMI M3 conference in Jamaica. I have not been the same since - the knowledge has rocked my world and want to support the efforts to bring justice to the guilty parties.
Jill F. Applegate
West Point, PA
Occupation: Jill Of Many Trades
Jill F. Applegate
West Point, PA
Occupation: Jill Of Many Trades
Roslyn Halperin
Phoenix, AZ
Occupation: Retired
Education: Some college
Roslyn Halperin
Some college
Phoenix, AZ
Occupation: Retired
I watched it fall on TV obviously controlled demolition...duh
This needs an investigation so it doesn't happen again.
Doug Mcgowan
Nanton, AB, Canada
Occupation: Inventor And Manufacturer
Doug Mcgowan
Nanton, AB, Canada
Occupation: Inventor And Manufacturer
I am a retired oilfield equipment designer, manufacturer and have a lifetime of experience as failure analyst and consultant.
The most basic laws of physics seem to have taken a holiday on Sept 11, 2001. The most striking being the upper section of the south tower recovering from rotational forces only to fall through the path of most resistance. William Rodriguez's testimony, seemingly supported by seismic data is entirely credible, whereby a lower level explosion precedes the strike by the jetliner.
Ginger Cave
Berlin, NY
Occupation: Truck Driver
Ginger Cave
Berlin, NY
Occupation: Truck Driver
Willem Bruins
Oosterhout Nb 4904 Vj, Noord Brabant, Netherlands
Occupation: Oil & Gas Industry
Willem Bruins
Oosterhout Nb 4904 Vj, Noord Brabant, Netherlands
Occupation: Oil & Gas Industry
Technical high school in the Netherlands. Worked mainly in the Oil & Gas Industry as a Directional Driller for +/- 30 years.
It is very evident from the visual signs (the collapse of all the buildings) that the official story is incorrect !! Therefore..to search for the truth is very important to unmask/expose the lie.
Willem Bruins
Oosterhout Nb 4904 Vj, Noord Brabant, Netherlands
Occupation: Oil & Gas Industry
Willem Bruins
Oosterhout Nb 4904 Vj, Noord Brabant, Netherlands
Occupation: Oil & Gas Industry
Technical high school in the Netherlands. Worked mainly in the Oil & Gas Industry as a Directional Driller for +/- 30 years.
It is very evident from the visual signs (the collapse of all the buildings) that the official story is incorrect !! Therefore..to search for the truth is very important to unmask/expose the lie.
Sam Hill
Opp, AL
Occupation: Accountant
Education: B.S. University OF ALABAMA
Sam Hill
B.S. University OF ALABAMA
Opp, AL
Occupation: Accountant
Wayne V. Johnson
Bristol, CT
Occupation: Concerned Citizen
Education: Professional Driver
Wayne V. Johnson
Professional Driver
Bristol, CT
Occupation: Concerned Citizen
I am a professional Driver, and former psychology/psychiatry student. I consider myself to be at least somewhat intelligent.
The plane which hit into the Earth in Pennsylvania did so in a nose dive fashion as is evidenced by the impact hole left behind. There is no way around that. This is where it gets interesting. The two Rolls Royce-built titanium engines would have been separated from the main wings of the plane upon impact and would have entered the Earth and would have been partially, if not fully buried in the ground. Neither engine was EVER found though. These two 30 ton titanium engines could not have burned while in the ground as no oxygen would have been present even if they did catch fire somehow after the impact. Even if the top halves of the engines burned, the parts that became embedded in the Earth could NOT have. It is simply impossible for the two 30 ton titanium engines to have disappeared in the scenario presented by the Government. Something is VERY wrong here.
Robert Pazur
Freehold, NJ
Occupation: Commercial Construction
Education: Trade College Decree
Robert Pazur
Trade College Decree
Freehold, NJ
Occupation: Commercial Construction
I am schooled and trained in the commercial and heavy construction field for over 30 years and have held positions from Owner, Super, General Foreman all the way to worker.
All the facts lead to the conclusion that we have a great need to look much deeper at all the information with an new official investigation. Especially where building 7 is concerned - not even being acknowledged in the earlier report .
Jim Bjork, OD
Huntsville, AL
Occupation: Optometry
Education: O.D.WATERLOO
Jim Bjork, OD
O.D.WATERLOO
Huntsville, AL
Occupation: Optometry
Health professional for 31 years. Hardworking taxpaying father of three boys aged 20, 19, 17. I don't want my kids living in a totalitarian hell which is the way we are headed.
Official report totally disregards science. Impossible for steel buildings to: 1. collapse under insufficient heat 2. randomly collapse into their own footprint Lots of officials and politicians knew it was going to happen. We need a full accounting of all public figures, and of their investment portfolios in particular, to see who was out of the market before 9/11. These people are criminals and murderers.
Roman Terlecki
Corp City Hot Springs, AR
Occupation: Watcher
Roman Terlecki
Corp City Hot Springs, AR
Occupation: Watcher
gravity-man of 57; and Born again... Servant of the Lord... state citizen...glory bound!
Gravity never lies! Watching without sound was enough... The good Lord calls for believers to... 'reprove the works of darkness': I plead with the guilty to come forward and repent! Gravity is...and so too Eternity; hear it now Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Peter O'bryan
Fairfax, VT
Occupation: Multiple Carreers
Peter O'bryan
Fairfax, VT
Occupation: Multiple Carreers
Multiple career-ed individual currently unemployed and looking for an entry level Office Support Staff position. A work at home data entry position would be most appealing. Former trades person, licensed security officer, truck/forklift/commercial vehicle operator with warehouse and management experience. Multiple years of informal study of business and student of human nature.
I thought it strange when I saw (live) the buildings come straight down like a demolition. I marveled to my wife, that they could build a structure that would do that with all the buildings.
Edward P. Lubomirski, Concerned Citizen
Fort Wayne, IN
Occupation: Citizen
Edward P. Lubomirski, Concerned Citizen
Fort Wayne, IN
Occupation: Citizen
just a concerned citizen that deplores the way politicians and the government have ruined this country.
I saw the building collapse on TV and thought they were a 'controlled' demolition. i believe the government and a foreign country did the dirty work to get us involved in a war so the corporations that own the government can make a ton of money.
Mark S. Smith
Elkton, MD
Occupation: Non Profit Sector
Mark S. Smith
Elkton, MD
Occupation: Non Profit Sector
I am a citizen of the U.S. and the State of Maryland. I am pursuing the formation of a nonprofit for the disadvantaged in our area. From 1999-2004, I attended college part-time, while being self-employed, pursuing a degree in Business. Additionally, I speak openly to friends, family, and the general public on the issue of 9-11, in an attempt to educate the American public with the weighty evidence to make an informed decision.
I believe it is critical that this information be independently and thoroughly examined by Congress. It is the right of every citizen to know the truth. I am thoroughly convinced that all three Buildings were leveled by a controlled demolition. We the People demand our leaders to investigate the issues fairly, and then publicly proclaim the truth. Furthermore, all who participated in carrying out the destructive act on 9-11 must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law! We the People of the United States of America have spoken!
Nicholas Moore
Chicago, IL
Occupation: I Have Been An Electrical Inspector For
Nicholas Moore
Chicago, IL
Occupation: I Have Been An Electrical Inspector For
I have worked as an electrical Inspector for the state of Illinois for IDOT. After that I went to work as lead quality control inspector for a manufacturer that made communications equipment for AT&T as well as NTI Canada. I was also the lead inspector for our NASA space shuttle program.
The fact that towers 1 and 2 fell at free fall speed and then the 2 buildings turned to powder, then building No.7, not hit by anything, falls in the same way that buildings in Las Vegas, NV USA fall when they are imploded, all these things make me wonder how can the official story be correct.
Thomas A. Hardgraves
Indianapolis, IN
Occupation: Carpenter
Education: Degreed
Thomas A. Hardgraves
Degreed
Indianapolis, IN
Occupation: Carpenter
Born in the US. My father was career Army. I worked in concrete construction over 20 years. Now I am working as electronics and computer tech. Concerned American Citizen
I never believed the official story. Too many common sense answers did not add up. Official story unbelievable.
Morgan T. Cole, Student
Starkville, MS
Occupation: Political Science
Education: student
Morgan T. Cole, Student
student
Starkville, MS
Occupation: Political Science
Tarek Ahmed
Brooklyn, NY
Education: Bachelor of Science
Tarek Ahmed
Bachelor of Science
Brooklyn, NY
I have over 13 years of engineering experience. I have worked for Board of Education to IBM.
It is quite obvious to anyone that these buildings were destroyed via explosives.
Tom S. Loeber, Independent Rese
Sunnyvale, CA
Occupation: General Systems Theory
Tom S. Loeber, Independent Rese
Sunnyvale, CA
Occupation: General Systems Theory
Early on learned first hand of Lewis Thomas' observation that we have yet to learn how to retain our humaneness when assembled in masses. Have dedicated my life to finding out what might be needed which necessitated avoiding any degrees as detouring from the target. We are in desperate need of a viable means of organizing. So far the anarchy paradigm rules and it is terminal.
9/11 Commission report and the reports from NIST are the quite demonstrably crazy conspiracy theories.
Patrick Munsch
Victoria, TX
Occupation: Automotive Tech/Natural Gas Compressor
Education: Degreed
Patrick Munsch
Degreed
Victoria, TX
Occupation: Automotive Tech/Natural Gas Compressor
Was formally a natural gas compressor tech. but am currently on long term disability due to a motorcycle accident that almost killed me.
i am at a loss for words. I never heard about any of the so called facts. If that is true then the Americans have a right to know the truth.
Gregory J. Dahlberg
Redlands, CA
Occupation: American
Gregory J. Dahlberg
Redlands, CA
Occupation: American
I'm just a regular, Working Class American with no special background. None the less I believe I have the right to know what happened that day. It doesn't take a genius to know something is being hidden from us.
It is alarming that the building fell like that. This doesn't happen without explosives.
Ryan D. Okey
Cuyahoga Falls, OH
Occupation: Anthropology
Education: student
Ryan D. Okey
student
Cuyahoga Falls, OH
Occupation: Anthropology
Student of anthropology, lover of humanity.
When I watched the buildings fall, I believed every word fed to me. Then I woke up. 9/11 was the pinnacle of my realization that America is being hijacked, and not by the so-called ''terrorists, but by our own 'leaders'.