The AE911Truth Petition
To the Members of the House of Representatives and of the Senate of the United States of America,
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE THAT:
On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 – specifically the collapses of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7. We believe there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that might have been the actual cause of the destruction of the World Trade Center Twin Towers and Building 7.
Featured Petition Signers
Ovidio Sbrissa, Architect
BArch
Always said it was controlled demolition, but I was always of the opinion that Al Quaida had gone in there and placed the explosive charges. I had no…
Ovidio Sbrissa, Architect
BArch
Ottawa, ON, Canada
Degree in Architecture (old school... meaning strong emphasis on structural engineering). Worked in firms which designed many tall buildings.
Always said it was controlled demolition, but I was always of the opinion that Al Quaida had gone in there and placed the explosive charges. I had no idea it was a real estate deal! The most heinous of criminal actions... perhaps right in line with the carpet bombing of Berlin.
Thomas J. Piatt
Architect
Boston Architectural Center
I'm signing this petition because I agree there should be a new investigation into 9/11.
Thomas J. Piatt
Boston Architectural Center
Milton, MA
Occupation: Architect
I studied architecture at the Boston Architectural Center and am licensed in Massachusetts. I've practiced architecture for 40 years, and am a principal at Piatt Associates Inc. in Milton MA.
I'm signing this petition because I agree there should be a new investigation into 9/11.
Benoit GéRin-Lajoie
Lock/Bridge Operator
University studies in physics 5y
Despite having made 5 years (not full time) University studies in Physics (pure), and not working in the field, I still have a PURE scientific and logical mind…
Benoit GéRin-Lajoie
University studies in physics 5y
StJeanSurRichelieu, QC, Canada
Occupation: Lock/Bridge Operator
Am a federal servant working in the public and operating locks and bridges on a canal system.
Despite having made 5 years (not full time) University studies in Physics (pure), and not working in the field, I still have a PURE scientific and logical mind and can see a canard when I see one; and if one tell me it's a chicken when it's a canard, I won't be fooled ! Firstly, the planes shock was NOT sufficient to induce such a collapse; Secondly, neither the fuel fire that CAN'T melt any steel, neither softening it to the point of inducing a swift break as it did; Thirdly, IF a softening WOULD be the cause of that IMPOSSIBLE collapse, it would have induced a GRADUAL TILT of the section above impact in the direction of impact, without producing that EXPLOSION LIKE event; Fourthly, since the fire in the first collapsing tower was on the verge of extinguishable (fire smoke on disparaging path) for tens of minutes, thus structurally cooling, and that it being struck last (45 min. later), this collapse defies logic and the laws of physics; Fifty, such a WOULD BE structural GRAVITATIONAL collapse would NOT have proceeded below ground level; Sixty, the amount of melted steel below ground level that lasted for WEEKS, IS PROOF that exterior physic-chemical agents were used in this destruction that ALL ELEMENTS points to a CONTROLLED DEMOLITION ! Finally, THREE (3) towers down on TWO stricken is TOO MUCK for logic : the third HAD to be controlled demolished, hence the two others !
James Hodgskiss, BEng (Hons)
Software Engineer
B.Eng (Hons) Electronics and Communications Engineering, University of Liverpool
We need a full, independent, impartial, public investigation into how and why Building 7 collapsed. Small fires at one side of the building (and no fire at the…
James Hodgskiss, BEng (Hons)
B.Eng (Hons) Electronics and Communications Engineering, University of Liverpool
Holmfirth, United Kingdom
Occupation: Software Engineer
I have a B.Eng (Hons) degree in Electronics and Communications Engineering, and now work as a Software Engineer.
We need a full, independent, impartial, public investigation into how and why Building 7 collapsed. Small fires at one side of the building (and no fire at the other side) can not be the cause of it coming down uniformly and at free fall acceleration. - - - - There is overwhelming evidence that explosives were used and this must be investigated rather than being seemingly covered up. - - - - For the safety of present and future generations, we must know what happened.
Patrick Gallagher
BSME
Patrick Gallagher
BSME
Albuquerque, NM
Michelle Bell, Consultant
Homeland Security
BS CJ; Homeland Security/CounterTerroris
Michelle Bell, Consultant
BS CJ; Homeland Security/CounterTerroris
Flint, TX
Occupation: Homeland Security
I hold a Bachelors of Science Degree with an emphasis on Homeland Security & Counter Terrorism. Additionally, I am a Government vendor as I assist others with the attainments of grants for alternative energy sources, mainly being (PV) Solar Energy.
Erin B. Hibbard, EI
Engineering (E)
B.S. Mechanical Engineering, USF
I am under the belief that the building (s) were destroyed with intentions, in lieu of from the fires/impacts from the planes.
Erin B. Hibbard, EI
B.S. Mechanical Engineering, USF
Tampa, FL
Occupation: Engineering (E)
I am a mechanical engineer and have been acting as an engineer intern for over 8 years, sitting for my Professional license in October to become a PE.
I am under the belief that the building (s) were destroyed with intentions, in lieu of from the fires/impacts from the planes.
Bruce P. Almich, B.S.E., MSEE, MPH, MBA
Engineer
B.S.E. in Electrical Engineering, Princeton University, 1972. MSEE, Stanford University, 1975.
I saw the WTC twin towers and building 7 go down live on TV. I saw the 'pre-announcement' of building 7 going down before it actually did on…
Bruce P. Almich, B.S.E., MSEE, MPH, MBA
B.S.E. in Electrical Engineering, Princeton University, 1972. MSEE, Stanford University, 1975.
Raleigh, NC
Occupation: Engineer
I am an electrical engineer with degrees from Princeton and Stanford University as well as a MPH degree in Environmental Science from Harvard University and an MBA from the University of Cincinnati. I am not a mechanical or structural engineer but had courses in mechanics and experience in aerosol physics in the 1970's. While working at the Environmental Protection Agency during 9/11, I was made aware of 'red particle' samples taken by EPA Region II but have no other first hand knowledge of the event.
I saw the WTC twin towers and building 7 go down live on TV. I saw the 'pre-announcement' of building 7 going down before it actually did on Fox News. Since then I have been skeptical about the whole 911 thing.
Jerome Bouchard, Engineer
B.A. Engineering, UQAC, canada
The building 7 collapse is what convinced me. How can a 47 stories building collapse like that ? This was not Haiti and there were no earthquakes. Even…
Jerome Bouchard, Engineer
B.A. Engineering, UQAC, canada
Granby, QC, Canada
Registered building electrical engineer working for an engineering firm.
The building 7 collapse is what convinced me. How can a 47 stories building collapse like that ? This was not Haiti and there were no earthquakes. Even then it would not have collapsed like that but rather slide on one side.
Eugene Liscio, PEng
Forensic Engineer
Ryerson University
It's difficult to imagine that all 3 towers were able to collapse in the manner that they did with localized fire. Witness statements, video and other relevant facts…
Eugene Liscio, PEng
Ryerson University
Woodbridge, ON, Canada
Occupation: Forensic Engineer
Eugene Liscio is a registered Professional Engineer in the Province of Ontario, Canada and is the owner of AI2-3D, a consulting company that specializes in 3D forensic documentation, analysis and visualizations. Eugene is also the President of the International Association of Forensic and Security Metrology (IAFSM) and is an Adjunct Professor at the University of Toronto, where he teaches a 3D Forensic Reconstruction and Mapping course as part of the Forensic Sciences Program. He is also actively engaged in research and mentoring students focusing on 3D documentation and analysis techniques.
It's difficult to imagine that all 3 towers were able to collapse in the manner that they did with localized fire. Witness statements, video and other relevant facts present are truths and data that need to be interpreted with objectivity and without influence or pressure from government agencies.
Lisa M. Mccullough, Technical Writer
Law/Technical Writing
BA English Dartmouth/Franklin & Marshall
There are too many inconsistencies, coincidences, unexplained phenomenon and outright fabrications in the official explanations to believe them. I believe that our own government likely orchestrated these events,…
Lisa M. Mccullough, Technical Writer
BA English Dartmouth/Franklin & Marshall
Whitefield, NH
Occupation: Law/Technical Writing
15 Years experience in Commercial Litigation and Insurance including Arson. 4 Years experience in technical writing, intellectual property law, product development (waste water industry).
There are too many inconsistencies, coincidences, unexplained phenomenon and outright fabrications in the official explanations to believe them. I believe that our own government likely orchestrated these events, or looked the other way and allowed them to happen in order to gain public support for waging war. I feel obligated to voice my questions as a citizen in honor of the innocent people who died on 9/11 and in the war on terror that followed.
Kenneth A. Fiallos, PE
Electrical
BSE
I believe that something is seriously wrong with the Official 9/11 Investigation.
Kenneth A. Fiallos, PE
BSE
Seffner, FL
Occupation: Electrical
I am an Electrical Engineer consulting in Power, Lighting and Building Automation Systems.
I believe that something is seriously wrong with the Official 9/11 Investigation.
Petition Signatories
Michael Wetzel
Hamburg, Germany
Michael Wetzel
Hamburg, Germany
Psychologist with a degree in Psychology, University of Hamburg, now retired.
I am not convinced by the official statements about the destruction of WTC 1, 2, and 7 on 2001/9/11.
Trinity O. Robin
Winchester, VA
Occupation: Mother
Trinity O. Robin
Winchester, VA
Occupation: Mother
I am a TRUTH seeker. The evidence is overwhelming that the TRUTH has not been told.
It is time for people to not live in Fear as the people who are in power are the creators of fear.
Carla L. Altepeter
Veradale, WA
Carla L. Altepeter
Veradale, WA
Masters in Business Administration, executive and concerned citizen.
I support an objective, independent review of the 9/11 events.
Bess Chimera
Westfield, NY
Bess Chimera
Westfield, NY
N/A I am just a concerned citizen.
I would love to know the truth. This country was built on truth & integrity right? Or am I just a girl with a dream?
Ross Kenneger
New Taipei City, Taiwan
Occupation: Businessman
Education: BA History
Ross Kenneger
BA History
New Taipei City, Taiwan
Occupation: Businessman
B.A. History. Student of history. Always been aware of false flags, thus always been interested in conspiracy analysis, always been motivated by the need for social justice.
It was obviously an inside job. Towers 1 + 2 did not collapse, they exploded. #7 was professionally demolished.
Victor Petkov
Montreal, QC, Canada
Occupation: High Profile Businessman
Education: University
Victor Petkov
University
Montreal, QC, Canada
Occupation: High Profile Businessman
Degree in marketing and finance from Montr'al Business College (HEC). Made a minimum of $700,000 yearly with my business as Importer of vehicles with USDOT before 9/11 and the war in Iraq killed my enterprise by devaluing the US Dollar.
The WTC buildings collapsed following explosions of dynamite.
Kurt Shotko
Moscow, PA
Occupation: Director Of Educational Org. The Common Sense Revival; Promoting
Education: 6 yrs. college Economics and Philosophy
Kurt Shotko
6 yrs. college Economics and Philosophy
Moscow, PA
Occupation: Director Of Educational Org. The Common Sense Revival; Promoting
Kurt Shotko graduated from North Pocono High School in 1985. [nominated for Who's Who of American High School Students 1984-85]. He was voted 'Best Activist in Northeast Pennsylvania' in 2000 by the readers of the Electric City newspaper. Mr. Shotko's biography has been selected for inclusion in 'Who's Who in America, 2002.' Mr. Shotko attended Keystone College for Biology, East Stroudsburg University for Philosophy and Economics. In 2002, he ran for the US House 10th District, PA as a Green Party candidate. In 2004, Mr. Shotko has been asked to submit his biography to the International Biographical Centre for inclusion in their book '2000 Outstanding Intellectuals of the 21st Century.' In 2008, he started The Common Sense Revival in order to create resilient and vigorous citizens who can think for themselves and maintain the courage and strength to keep going when times are tough. Volunteered as a street activist/protester from 1993 until the present. From 1995-2005 held lunch time vigils for justice almost everyday on Courthouse Square in Scranton, PA, 2015 working on 9/11 Common Sense project. The idea is for me to dress as Thom Paine and go set up public education shows about WTC 7 in town squares in the Mid-Atlantic region.
Peer reviewed science confirms the presence of nano-thermite in the dust of Towers. The official story is a complete LIE!
Adam M. Niejadlik
Oshawa, ON, Canada
Occupation: Account Manager
Education: High School
Adam M. Niejadlik
High School
Oshawa, ON, Canada
Occupation: Account Manager
This is one of, if not the biggest official lies in history and most foreign policy today is based off of that lie. The truth needs to come out, people need to be aware of the length at which some people/organizations will go to to protect their interests. I am disgusted at the state of the world today, and at the fact that there are so many people out there who refuse to see and accept the truth. There needs to be a REAL investigation
This is one of, if not the biggest official lies in history and most foreign policy today is based off of that lie. The truth needs to come out, people need to be aware of the length at which some people/organizations will go to to protect their interests. I am disgusted at the state of the world today, and at the fact that there are so many people out there who refuse to see and accept the truth. There needs to be a REAL investigation
Oliver Trinh
Bristol, TN
Education: UWE
Oliver Trinh
UWE
Bristol, TN
At University currently. I am not a professional, however, I conduct deep research into consciousness, spirituality, politics, war & conflict and hierarchies. I have developed a deep knowledge of these subjects and am a supporter for your cause. The perpetrators must be brought to justice, the majority of the american population have been fooled once again by power: money and media. In respect to your intentions, the only way you will become successful in your efforts is by connecting the public to your cause. When the people are on your side there will be unity, enlightenment and revolution. Put just as much effort into networking as evidence then you will truly achieve your goal.
Clear evidence of a controlled demolition. The American government is an oligarchy and one day I know the American people will finally awaken and revolt against the criminals. Once they understand the brainwashing, corruption and murder their nation participates in they will understand that they do not live in true freedom. When the populations uphold a greater consciousness there will be reform. What you are all doing is a vital example of the power of the people and we owe it to the future generations. It is only a matter of time before the truth is revealed.
Russ Noble
Dallas, TX
Occupation: Technical Sales
Education: BA Econ & Finance
Russ Noble
BA Econ & Finance
Dallas, TX
Occupation: Technical Sales
BA in Econ & Finance, Univ of Texas.
Too many unaddressed structural engineering questions, coupled with the small matter of the $2.3T in missing Pentagon funds that Rumsfeld announced was missing on Sept 10th, the day before the attacks points to a national-level cover up.
Matthias Lieber
Erlenbach, TX
Matthias Lieber
Erlenbach, TX
German High school degree (Abitur); Citizen of the province of Rhineland-Palatinate.
Building 7 collapsed without any plane hitting it, collapse happened at free-fall speed (no resistance from lower floors), perfectly symmetric collapse, no steel-framed skyscraper collapsed due to fire before, Twin Towers 'pile-driver' theory violates Newton's 3rd law of motion (force equals counter-force), collapse also happened in perfect symmetry and at near free-fall speed, Twin Towers were LITERALLY blown up with pyroclastic clouds all over Manhattan, molten steel was found in the basement. It somehow amazes me how the official story is still alive after 14 years!
Greg Brack
Alhaurin De La Torre, Spain
Occupation: Chef (Retired)
Education: culinary school
Greg Brack
culinary school
Alhaurin De La Torre, Spain
Occupation: Chef (Retired)
Various colleges, culinary schools (America, France) Been living in Europe since 1988.
Disgusting display of black ops and murder. I would love to see the truth come out and those involved fully prosecuted. There is no doubt in my mind the media was involved before hand and during to scare the world. It was more than obvious that building 7 was deliberately demolished along with the twin towers. The Pentagon attack could have been a missile that destroyed part of the building, not an airplane as publicized.
George Sherman
New York, NY
George Sherman
New York, NY
I am someone who lives about a mile from 9/11 site and long believed something wasn't right about the official story. Thank God for WBAI Radio and Global Research for opening my eyes to the facts. I heard parts of your film on WBAI years ago.
It's still hard to believe they would kill all those people, including my father, for what is basically an evil agenda. They have gotten so much back for their investment. The dust blew in our direction for at least a month.
George Maragkakis
Essex, CT
Occupation: Self Employed
George Maragkakis
Essex, CT
Occupation: Self Employed
David T≈Ôebensk√Ω
Prague, Czech Republic
David T≈Ôebensk√Ω
Prague, Czech Republic
High School graduation, specialization Building Technology
From all videos and your evidences which I've seen, I am (more than 5 years) convinced that Building no.7 was destroyed by controlled demolition, same as the Twins. I want a new investigation.
Matteo Azzola, MA, BA
Vertova, Italy
Matteo Azzola, MA, BA
Vertova, Italy
BA Philosophy, MA Philology, 2nd MA Philosophy and Science
No one with common sense or the slightest sense of logic could believe in the official version of what happened.
Peter White
Nottingham, NH
Occupation: Humane Activist
Education: Master's Degree
Peter White
Master's Degree
Nottingham, NH
Occupation: Humane Activist
Organizer for the voters revolution that our Nation needs!
The TRUTH about 9/11, when widely known, shall set us free from the Wall Street Empire and their two-Party crap trap!
Shazad Rafi
Skedsmokorset, Norway
Occupation: Controller
Shazad Rafi
Skedsmokorset, Norway
Occupation: Controller
I work within a logistics company as a controller- 3 years education in Finance and IT- I have no education within architecture nor science
Absolutely a controlled demolition. Why are they still hiding it and not investigating it? US is spending millions of dollars on warfare. Why are they not spending money to get the truth out of what exactly happened on 09/11/01 ?
Adele A. Roof
Charlottesville, VA
Occupation: Retired
Education: Master's Degree
Adele A. Roof
Master's Degree
Charlottesville, VA
Occupation: Retired
I'm retired and spend a lot of time studying US foreign policy. I'm terrified of all the excuses the US uses to enter into military confrontations.
I've watched a few videos of your meetings and read quite a bit on this subject. I've read critiques of the official investigation, led by Phillip Zelikow, and I am troubled by what seems to be a lot of withholding of relevant information from the American people.
Carole Lindberg
Quito
Occupation: Artist
Education: B.A. PRINTMAKING, RISD
Carole Lindberg
B.A. PRINTMAKING, RISD
Quito
Occupation: Artist
I am a working and exhibiting artist. I also restore historic houses. I restored and own my own gallery in the Historic Center of Quito, Ecuador.Recently, I began to study organized crime after my son was assaulted by gang members and left to die (he was miraculously saved), My main focus has been on the Study of fundamentalist Islamic terrorism and reading of the Quran. Now I am extending my studies to criminal political systems in the West. To me, solving 9/11 will place many facets of war and situations that developed in the Middle East into new focus.
I would like a real investigation to take place. In my lifetime, I see that the majority of organized criminals are never held responsible. You guys are whistle blowers, and I admire your persistence to find who really is guilty. A good idea to focus on WTC 7 which is not complicated by the other confusing acts of dramatic aggression.
Bryn N. Morgan
Merced, CA
Bryn N. Morgan
Merced, CA
Just a true patriotic American who wants the truth on 9/11 revealed to the public as it should be.
9/11 was a government operation from beginning to end and is one of the biggest false flag events of all time. It was used to get us into another illegal war.
Elena Mannocci
Prato, Italy
Elena Mannocci
Prato, Italy
I am 27 years old, graduated as Visual Designer in Florence, Italy. I am a freelance videomaker and communication manager for the ONG 'Liter of Light Italy'.
I want to know the truth about an horrific piece of history. I know that humans can do a lot of terrible things for the love of power and money and this can be another sad example of it.
Nic Honkomp
Ames, IA
Nic Honkomp
Ames, IA
I'm actually a high school drop out. I don't agree with the American educational system since they deliberately teach history wrong. Yet still at the age of 25 most of my days consist of working and learning anything that I find useful.
I was only in 6th grade in 2001, yet even I didn't believe what we were told about what happened. I find it disturbing and very concerning that George Bush Jr., and his whole administration, hasn't been convicted of treason and war crimes for their roll in the 9/11 attacks.
Nate Emond
Webster, MA
Occupation: Delivery Driver
Nate Emond
Webster, MA
Occupation: Delivery Driver
A normal American. Delivering pizza for a living. I grew up watching 9-11 in high school and after the first plane hit we were sent home and I watched the rest live on TV. I have lost interest in main stream media and watch you tube for news.
I thought as a teenager that they pulled Building 7. I believed they did it because it was so badly damaged it would collapse soon. That night I had to work a part time job so I did not see building 7 fall. I was a dumb naive teenager and I cant believe I believed that until 2013 and so many people can't see the controlled demolition of building 7 now. I know we need a new investigation and I hope you can get it.
Armando Torres
El Paso, TX
Armando Torres
El Paso, TX
I'm a Logistician have been in the manufacturing industry for 30 years.
It was sad to feel someone was lying to us. A lot of innocent people lost their lives and would like to know the truth.
Crystal M. Hultberg
Pullman, WA
Occupation: Homemaker
Education: BA Fine Arts
Crystal M. Hultberg
BA Fine Arts
Pullman, WA
Occupation: Homemaker
I am 70 years old, fifth generation Northwest native. For many years I worked on election boards. Today, I think we have lost our democracy due to electronic voting machines, and various forms of cheating.
9/11 was an unusual day for me because I woke up dizzy and sick. NPR was reporting all the theaters and such were closing, so something was going on. Later when I got to the TV, they announced that building seven was going to come down. I thought they meant it was unstable and going to crumble. I remember police trying to get people away and when it went, I understood that they were taking it down. I remember the next day trying to piece it together and counting on my fingers, trying to figure out how many hours they had, because I didn't know they could wire up a building that fast. I have learned now that it takes some days to do that.One report I recall was a welder who had the job to cut up the beams. He was hot and sweaty coming up from the pile, looked like nighttime in NY, and he said there were puddles of molten metal and it was really hot down there, and he didn't have to do much cutting because most of the beams were already a size that could be loaded. I've never seen that clip since. It was days after the collapse and I thought the molten metal persisting so long was strange. Now I know the existence of molten metal is strange.
Michelle Griffin
Bristol, TN
Occupation: Musician
Education: A level/AS level
Michelle Griffin
A level/AS level
Bristol, TN
Occupation: Musician
I am a mother of 8 with college education and an IQ of 123
This was an obvious controlled explosion. I watched this live as it happened on BBC Sky 24 news.
Barbara Bates
Fort Myers, FL
Barbara Bates
Fort Myers, FL
Just a concerned citizen. I see programs on it but they never discuss the third building collapsing like a pancake.
How did the third building go down when it did not have a plane crash into it or a fire.
Mark J. Davies
London, United Kingdom
Occupation: Sales Of Building Management Control Systems
Mark J. Davies
London, United Kingdom
Occupation: Sales Of Building Management Control Systems
English, Maths, French, Music and Drama qualifications. 17 and a half years working in the Building Industry on the some of the most Iconic Buildings in London.
It extremely clear to me from all the evidence reviewed that WT1, 2 & 7 were subject to controlled demolition and did not fall as a result of office fires or as the result of the planes crashing into the buildings. Much evidence has been completely overlooked especially in terms of the many explosions heard by Fire Fighters and those present in and near the buildings.
Daniel Spoonauer
Woodbridge, NJ
Daniel Spoonauer
Woodbridge, NJ
Woodbridge NJ high school graduate (2004), Sanford Brown Institute Medical Assistant graduate with a 3.8 GPA (2009)
9/11 at times seems a distant memory. I was a freshman in high school, but the memories from that day will stay with me forever. It has been said so often 'the world changed that day' and it did. However I firmly believe it would be a disservice to the memories of not only those who lost their lives on 9/11, but also the service men and women who fought and died in the wars that followed swiftly afterwards. All I seek is the truth, and a proper investigation done independently and properly.
Anthony Smart
Lititz, PA
Anthony Smart
Lititz, PA
I am a chef. Educated enough to know when I am being lied to.
Y'all are the architects and engineers. I trust you more than the lies we have been told.
Ryan Pinter
Detroit, MI
Ryan Pinter
Detroit, MI
BA in Supply Chain Management from Michigan State University with numerous years in aerospace and automotive purchasing experience as well as years in research and investigation into the 9/11 alternative thinking.
There are way too many unanswered questions being purposefully and deliberately swept under the rug. Too many rights have been taken away from the laws passed from this attack for the people not to be given more answers they deserve.
Jacob Tee
Bellevue, WA
Jacob Tee
Bellevue, WA
Twenty year old who is curious about this controversial topic.
There is a lot of talk on both sides about jet fuel not being able to burn through the steel of the building, or tower 7 seeming to look like a planned demolition. We already know there was plenty of lying around the Iraq war. Plus knowing about operation Northwoods, and other similar operations it wouldn't seem out of the realm of possibility.